In RP I Trust

RP etiquette and rules are such a weird thing.

I have to remind myself that what I'm used to may only be the norm for my particularly circle of friends, and that not everyone has the same opinions. So take the rest of this with a grain of salt; these are my opinions, and the type of players I prefer to play with.

There's an argument that pops up in the forums and in OOC every once and a while about whether people's fighting prowess and experience should be tied to their PvP skills or character level.   For instance, should a level 10 character be allowed to play an experience war veteran?  Should someone who doesn't even own honor gear be taken seriously in an RP duel?

Proponents of the PvP requirement argue that PvP battles are the only way to have a fair duel and prevent a player from godmodding or playing someone who is too powerful.  It's also a much faster method than typing out battle sequences and avoids dealing with people who like to make overly long and complicated battle poses.  Not to mention it's a lot more visceral; it is decidedly much more exciting to see two people casting spells and swinging their weapons than two avatars emoting at each other.

The level requirement is tied into that premise.  A level 20 character is not going to have any chance against a level 90, no matter how skilled at PvP he may be.   That implies that the level 20 character shouldn't play someone who is supposed to be skilled in battle, since they can't back up the claim in a fight.

I've seen posts from people on the forums that say they "just can't take a level 10 seriously."  I've seen the sentiment, "By the time I'm max level, I've fought dragons, cultists, fought the Lich King, and defeated the sha.  Am I supposed to pretend that I'm not skilled?"

There was a recent forum thread on World's End Tavern where a player attempted to post an RP-PvP guide that erupted into controversy.  The original poster had it deleted, or else I'd link to it.  The original poster felt that fighting prowess should be determined by PvP skills; one of the main dissenters who replied felt that tying a character trait to a game mechanic denied their character their "fair due" of respect as a character who was a veteran.

The OP countered that it was not "fair" that the dissenter could declare his character to be stronger than someone else's just based on his own word, and that it bordered on godmodding.  If everyone were allowed to determine how strong their character was without some sort of limiting factor (PvP skill), then everyone could claim to be super-strong.

It's true that it's very easy in an RP emote fight for one person to try and gain an unfair advantage by posting something along the lines of, "Elren waits until he is distracted and punches him in the face using her lightning speed."

Or, "Renzly counters by pulling out a hidden dagger coated with a deadly toxin that kills in five seconds and stabs him squarely in the back."

Both of those are examples of godmodding; the acting character made an action, then declared how that action affected the other player without giving the other player time to react.  (For some people, the second example would have a secondary sin of including a "hidden weapon" that no one could have known about.)

Roleplayers have developed different methods of ensuring fairness.  I've seen some very complicated "emote dueling rules" that determine what type of posts you may make, how long they must be, and how many actions are permitted.  The page I was looking at was so complicated I could barely follow it; it had rules such as having your first post describe your character in detail, including all potential weapons.   Then it went on to detail what constituted an "action" and how to properly post possible outcomes of that action, and rules about how much time you have to type a reply.  If that's the kind of ruleset some RPers work with, I don't don't blame people for desiring the simplicity of  /duel.  There's no way I'd follow that.

For smaller fights, my friends and I generally use /rolls and emotes  to determine outcomes of actions, in addition to modifications based on the character's IC skill.  I will post an attack, make a /roll, and then the defender will do another /roll to determine if that attack is successful. The defender then posts a reply, usually taking the degree of difference in the roll into account.  I've done a few fights without the /rolls, but I like having  /rolls to add a little randomness and account for "lucky blows."

As an example:
I post: Renzly slices at Elren's thigh. and then /roll a  40.
Elren rolls a /60, so she replies: Elren quickly backs off and avoids the dagger.
If she had rolled a /45 (a closer roll) she may have done: Elren jumps back in surprise and narrowly misses being sliced.
A /38 may have yielded: Elren attempts to dodge, but Renzly scores a shallow cut against her. 
A dismal /10:  Elren cries out in pain as the dagger draws blood. She staggers back with  limp.

If we assume that Elren is a vastly more skilled fighter, then those emotes could be:
/60: Elren predicts the attack and easily avoids the dagger, countering with a palm thrust.
/45: Elren waits until the last possible moment before neatly dodging the attack. 
/38: Elren is surprised by the goblin's speed, but still easily dodges will little more than a scratch.
/10: Elren is surprised by the goblins's speed, and Renzly scores a shallow cut.

What they all have in common that the first two replies let Elren escape without harm; the last two grant that Renzly scored a hit, but not always to the same amount of success.  Elren ranged from gaining a limp to only having a tiny scratch.

It can create some fun situations when this type of event happens:
Renzly dives from above, aiming for Elren's back.  /roll 5
/95:  Elren absently continues on her way, then looks over in surprise as a goblin lands on the ground three feet to her left.

Arguments against this system is that when you rely solely on /rolls, then it's completely random and requires no skill.  Why should a skilled rogue like Renzly miss so badly just because she /rolled a 5?  However, if you allow people to modify the outcome based on their IC skill, then gives the godmodders an excuse to ignore the /rolls and overpower everyone anyway.  If the defender is allowed to determine how badly they are hurt, what's to keep them from declaring every hit is "just a scratch"?

You know what most of these arguments have in common? A lack of trust.

You only need complicated rules and mechanics to keep someone in check when you don't trust them to play fair.  I trust the people I play with to stay within reasonable limits and to have an open OOC discussion about the repercussions of a fight.  I trust them to treat my characters with respect.  I trust most of the members of my RP community to understand how to play fair.  I also trust them to remember we're here to have fun.  Rolling a /5 and having a hilarious fail is fun.  That's why RP realms have a general reputation for being filled with more mature players; our play style encourages cooperation, or else we're left with no one to play with.

If I find a player is prone to godmodding, I will ask them to stop, and if that doesn't work, I won't play with them any longer.  If someone tries to "beat up" my character without permission, then there is no requirement that I acknowledge that as actually happening. If the player doesn't learn to work with others, that player gets ignored and left out.

Roleplay is about cooperation and respect.  We have to agree to abide by the same set of rules.  If two players want to use PvP to settle their fight, that's perfectly fine.  But if one person believes in PvP and the other prefers /emotes, they shouldn't ridicule each other for their choices.  They need to find a different way to settle their IC differences, or agree that their play styles are incompatible and move on.  What it does not mean is that one player is better than the other, or that one character is "stronger" than the other because they're more proficient in one type of dueling.

That's where I think some of the PvP duelist go wrong, when they insist fighting strength must be proven by PvP skills and character level.   PvP is a game mechanic. Game mechanics and IC attributes don't exactly align.  It's like the separation between questing and character experience; just because I've quested through Pandaria, it doesn't mean my character's personal friends with Anduin. My character's ability to cook is not limited to what her Cooking Profession skill is.  OOC, Kezrin is an shaman who's recently gotten strong enough to raid.  IC, that does not mean she is strong enough to defend herself from a single orc warrior intent on hurting her, no matter if that orc warrior is level 20 or 90.

Limiting a character's skill and experience to their OOC level also makes it more difficult for people to join in role play.  We like to say that "all characters are free to role play, level doesn't matter."  Less people would be willing to play if we said, "level doesn't matter, as long as you're okay playing a wimpy character until you hit 90."  And what about characters who are leveling?  If Kezrin were level 70 last week, and level 90 this week, does that mean she suddenly got stronger in the space of only seven days?

It's also unfair to expect people who enjoy RP to have to play a different aspect of the game, PvP, just to be considered "good" in their preferred play style.  PvPers and PvEers complain when forced to run each other's content.  RPers can feel the same way, too about being forced to PvP or PvE.


I recently rolled a death knight as a villain for Terra Incognita.  His whole purpose was to be nasty and fight with people; did that mean he'd only be an effective villain if I leveled him all the way to 90 and learned to PvP as a DK?  No.  It would have been silly to wait several months while I learned an entirely new class and method of fighting and geared up, just for a character I planned to delete once he was defeated.  My guild mates were willing to take the threats from a level 60 death knight seriously, and we all had fun without forcing me to grind out a class I didn't find enjoyable.


Roleplay isn't about being skilled in PvP.  It's not about being skilled in PvE.  It's about being willing to work together to build a shared story and trusting each other to be respectful and fair.   There's no need for complicated rules and elitism if everyone would simply be considerate.